Tom, whenever I hear you're on about old
age pensioners and what they've got and
what they've paid in and they can't have
this and don't forget, I've lived in my
house for years. It has gone up
astronomically. That is not my fault.
That is living in London. That is
everybody.
>> Mhm.
>> My this house will go to pay for my
upkeep when I can no longer look after
myself. If I haven't got this house and
this income, who will look after me?
There are no state there are no places
for the state to look after me. I've got
a family. Yes, but they don't live in
London.
>> I'm not I don't I don't I don't want you
to sell your house. I don't want you to
move out of your house. I don't want
that house. Is yours
>> I know. I know. But you do pick on the
pension people.
>> No, no, no.
>> No, no, no, no, Tom. Please. directly
you they just said about doing something
with your private pension. You say leave
it alone. Leave it alone. Leave it
alone.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Leave us alone.
>> I'm trying to I'm trying. I'm
>> No, you do not. No. I'm sorry. Whenever
I listen to If I tell you the
difference, if Nick Ferrari was on there
because he's nearer pension age, he
would think differently. Do
>> you know what? I Do you know what? I'm
going to text him. I'm going to text him
now because I am absolutely certain.
Shirley,
>> I tell you what,
>> a man of his
>> honeymoon. Please don't be on his
honeymoon. Please don't. You know, I
mean, God,
>> he's busy on his honeymoon. Should we
leave it at that?
>> Tom, you do this every time.
>> Shirley,
>> I feel so sorry for the old people in
this country.
>> I I do because when No, can I speak?
Because no, I can I speak because I'm
speaking for the majority of all people
in this country.
>> We feel like we're not wanted.
>> You are.
>> Honestly, no. Not the way people are
talking.
>> No. Don't change it. I'm not
>> because you are one you are one of the
worst people who keep on about old age
pensioners. Their houses are worth a
million. That is not our fault. I I'm
not Shirley.
>> Gosh, I' I've left you with such a
completely wrong impression, which is of
course entirely my fault. I am
absolutely on your side. I want to
protect more of that money that you
have. I I I do think that house
valuations a reasonable thing to be tax
inheritance on, but your private
pension, no, that should be left alone.
>> Hello, Sheila. First time caller calling
yourself. Um, I don't understand why it
was the Conservatives who got rid of the
safe roots cuz they were trying to save
money. So why don't they just put back
the safe roots even though we've come
out of Europe and Europe will turn
around and say to us, "Well, hold on,
it's going to cost you a lot more money
now."
>> Yeah.
>> And
we've always had immigration in this
country. I'm also I was born and bread
in this country. I'm black. So for me,
I've listened to all the stories of when
the first immigrants come into the
country. My mom was half Indian, my dad
was black, both of them came from the
Caribbean.
>> And after the war and sitting down and
listening to what my parents had said to
us, it was in 1948 when mass immigration
started in this country. Even though
we've had immigrants over the years
and what we've got to understand,
immigration has been a big part of this
country.
>> It has and is. Yeah.
>> Yeah. A big part of this country. So
yes, I feel we've also I also feel I've
been let down by previous governments.
>> In what way? in the fact that we've had
mass immigration
and people are coming into the country
and yet I'll be still even though I was
born here be still pushed to the bottom
of the pile.
>> Why do you
>> and and even when we've got rid of
immigration
I'll still be classified as a foreigner.
>> But in what way are you being harmed by
this?
because we need to sort it out because
for instance I went up to it. I just
live in Enfield so I've driven up to
Epin just to see what it was all about
>> and some of the looks that you get. They
have made their area now a no-go area.
>> Who's who have
>> Ethics Eping?
>> No, but who in Eping has made it a no-go
area?
>> Who?
>> The people.
>> How? because of their attitude towards
the immigrants.
>> So you you went as a person of color and
you know and you were you were regarded
differently.
>> What with suspicion?
>> and yet and yet when you talk to me you
can clearly hear that I've got a
northeast London accent.
>> I can. Yeah. And I've got no idea what
color you are talking to you obviously.
Well, I'm telling you I'm black.
>> No, I believe you. I'm not doubting you.
I'm just saying, you know, you don't
>> We need to We need to We the government
needs to sort this problem out. Yes, it
will escalate.
>> It will escalate.
>> And what will sort it out?
>> What will sorting it out look like?
>> Getting back safe routes,
processing the people properly. So to to
stop the need for these kinds of
crossings.
Yes. Otherwise we're going to have a
problem within the country and then
there will be this uh sniping at each
other.
>> Probably going to disagree on this one.
So I'm going to preface it by saying
that I'm not a Tory. In fact quite the
opposite and I I taught uh until I
retired and finished as acting head in a
comprehensive school. However, I also
invested in property and on every penny
I earned from teaching, I paid for 40
odd percent. Yeah. Every penny I earned
from property, I paid a further 40%.
Every repair I did on the houses, I paid
20% of that. When I sold a couple of
houses, I paid 24% capital gains tax.
And anything I've invested, I now pay
40% on that. I'm 71 years old. Okay. I'm
not pleading an a an age exemption, but
I noticed that in your sort of swinging
idea of changing all taxes like Rachel
Reeves, you dodge the big questions. You
dodge why don't why are global
corporations paying nothing? Amazon for
two years have paid no UK tax. How much
money have they made in the UK? Why
aren't we dealing with that?
>> I don't think it's an either or. I don't
think it's an either or, Steve. I don't
think so.
>> Hang on. Hang on. I agree. But where
have you heard Rachel Reeves or Kia
Starmer or anybody show any backbone or
guts? What they're going to do is
another spiteful little tax. Oh, look,
you've made a few bob on your house.
We'll take it off you. Well, to be fair,
as a generation, Steve, to be fair, as a
generation, uh, the boomers have made
more than a few bob off their house,
made, you know, billions and billions of
pounds collectively, you know, just
because because partly because, and,
this is where I think it gets difficult
for younger people. Partly because that
same generation has decided to apply
ultimately strict planning laws which
will prevent enough building to allow
younger people to buy their house, which
itself has increased the value of your
home. So come on, let's have a little
bit of
>> Okay, you'll get no argument for me
about ridiculous planning laws during my
I'm
>> sure you've experienced it. Yeah.
>> Well, every every property I bought, I
bought a renovation project because
that's what we did. We renovated them,
put them into good order, and let them
and it worked very well largely to
students with with whom we had as both
exeers. We had a good relationship.
>> But the point I'm driving at is that
once again, it's an it's a soft target.
It's going for the small man who's got a
few quid. And what what they instead of
saying look where's the real money the
real money is in Apple it's in Amazon.
>> There is a lot of there is a lot of real
money in the in the appreciation of
British property. There's there is real
money in that
>> but not but but again you are you what
you're inviting is yet another attack on
anybody who's made a you know they're
not we're not multi-millionaires.
We're just you know we're a retired
couple uh having fun and and trying to
do what we plan to do when we're
retired. I think I've made a fair
contribution over the years. I'm sure
you have and and I'm looking at Apple
and Amazon and they don't and I want
that address.
>> But everyone can always say someone else
should pay. You know, ultimately the tax
base has got to be broad. And even if we
were able, which is difficult,
>> but even if we were able, which would be
difficult, to um tax Amazon and Apple
that to when we both agree on this the
extent that they should be, that still
would not be adequate to cover the
taxation that we're going to need to
cover an aging population and all the
demands that people put on the state. So
Reeves does have to look somewhere. And
I suppose the argument from my point of
view, I mean I I actually think what
Reeves is suggesting is is wrong. As
I've as I've outlined, I think there
should be a more fundamental change. I
think stamp duty, the abolition of stamp
duty would be a very good idea because
it is a ridiculous tax to to tax on
purchase rather than sale. But if you
were to put CGT on residences at the
moment, at least it would address the
problem where you've got complete
disparity between assets at present. If
you invest in say shares and make a
profit, you pay capital gains. If you
invest in your own property, make a
profit often far larger, you pay nothing
at all. That skews investment towards
property, which makes the housing crisis
even worse. So my argument would be why
not change the system and have a
property tax at sale, not at purchase
and not annually. And that would be an
equitable fair way of dealing with an
asset which is appreciated a lot, which
you may have invested in. Sure, you keep
most of the profit to it, but also a
contribution is made. So, well, so then
are we then going into a CGT scenario
for Stamp View to where somebody says,
"Hang on, I bought it for this, but you
know, I bought it for 200,000, but I
spent another 200 taking it from a piece
of wreckage into a decent property. So,
where where is that going to be allowed
for?" Or presumably, it isn't would be
my guess under your system. And
furthermore, anybody selling a house
that is not their home place pays CGT at
24%. Sure.
>> Okay. So, so we're still, you know, we
are paying. And the bit that I find
horrifying again is that it's it the
sheer amount of tax
>> you are paying but at the moment at the
moment but at the moment at the moment
what is happening is that the purchases
of property who are often younger and
don't have much capital are being forced
to raise you know significant capital to
to buy stamp duty on purchase. My
argument to you would be to say that
given that house prices, people who own
those assets collectively have gone up
by literally trillions of pounds,
trillions of pounds, that it would be
more efficient, more equitable, more
just to charge there rather than on
purchase. And there's a generational
equity impact on that as well. I would
go with the revision of Stamp Duty
without a doubt, but I want to see a
broad a much broader taxation approach
that that is not just targeted at the
easy targets because the people that
Rachel Reed has got in the gun sites,
we're the easy targets.
>> You mentioned one idea yourself because
you mentioned the idea of turning it
into a big hotel. And of course, um
Charles has told us several times that
that diversity makes stronger. Um people
all over the country are protesting
about migrants um in their in their
communities and hotels. And I just think
it it'd be a wonderful way if you think
back to the way the royals sort of lost
touch after the the death death of Dian
Diana um and uh they had to show that
they sort of they felt our pain and this
is rather a similar story. They they
could show that they feel our pain and
they're sharing this issue with us by
opening up places like Buckingham Palace
as a as a as a as a as a nice new hotel.
um for um for some of the people who are
waiting to be processed.
>> I think there would be a degree of
outrage, Richard, that uh
>> I'm I'm being slightly sarcastic.
>> Oh, are you okay?
>> But but but I mentioned one thing. Um I
don't know if you know this, but um the
king owns lots of shoreland shoreland
around the UK, large parts of the Welsh
coast, for instance. Now, more
practically, if the and the king there
is a precedent, Tom, because the king
has apparently already given um um Ed
Milliband some of this some of this land
for wind farms. So, he's happy to get
involved in politics on the quiet with
something that suits him. So,
>> well, I don't think he's given I think
we've I think there's been a a bit of
money changing hands. I don't think it's
quite been handed over so that we can
build um uh offshore wind farms on it.
But he's definitely he's he's a he's an
eco warrior, the king to some extent. Um
I think he does it does he still sh um
shake the branch of a new tree that he's
planted or he gives it a tap to say good
luck to it or something? He talks to
trees. I It's very nice in a way.
>> Richard, thank you very much indeed.
>> Hello. Hello. Gosh, I'm a firsttime
caller and I'm really really enjoying
the conversation going on. I'm not as
academic as some of your brilliant
people who are on, but I am 82 and I
talk from life experience. Just
referring to your previous caller, I
think he ought to watch that great
American series called Breaking Bad.
>> And also friends of mine went to America
to become lecturers and they were
terrified of becoming ill for the first
10 years because they couldn't afford
the health business. Well, that is true.
And that's that's an example of America.
Um, but what I was going on about, um,
really was the housing issue. Go on.
>> And I've rented all my life and I have a
son and I've done every job known to
mankind from being a dustman to building
and all sorts of things apart from my
actual profession.
But um, but what I was going to say is
that
>> Margaret Thatcher with the right to buy
originally. Okay. A lot of people it got
people you know allowed them to become
richer and so on selling their council
flats and all but what's happened is a
total commodification
of our whole economy
>> and that is destroying
a social um atmosphere that I grew up in
and has existed for a long time because
it's actually a very subtle form of
dividing and rule which is the absolute
inherent nature of the politics in this
country and the quotes that everyone is
using which absolutely I couldn't
understand two phrases social mobility
and the housing ladder now what would
the subtext of those two phrases be you
can believe them or you could read the
subtext being you should feel insecure
about who you are and should be aspiring
to be something greater.
>> Now in France, I heard a debate on
there. I I have French family. They said
in France we work to have a life. In
England, you live to work. And that's
sort of what you were saying. I know I'm
I'm being a bit more sort of general and
less precise with evidence, but I know
that to be true. Our children now are
starting life
without any help. 50 grand in debt. Now,
if you're from a rich family, you're
going to make a lot of money out of 2
and 12% loan. You'll make money out of
that.
>> Yes. If you're a clever parent, if you
have no capital and your parents are
just working or maybe not working, but
your son or daughter gets you to start
life 50 grand in debt. My generation, we
got grants. We didn't have to pay. It's
absolutely and no one ever talks about
that. No one ever talks about the as you
were saying the top down and it and the
knock-on effect which is hitting us now
with why we're talking about it mental
health all these issues that are coming
up dayto day are to do with a lot to do
with social insecurity
>> absolutely
>> when I started off we had a thing called
social security now if you try going
down that path you're virtually told
you're a criminal And it is total insec
mental and and if you have social
insecurity, it's going to affect your
brain as well, particularly if you have
children. Tim,
>> sorry that was a bit of a rant.
>> Not at Well, you know what? That's what
we like, Tim. And I can hardly criticize
anyone for having a rant this morning
given the last 2